Google I/O

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PhaseDMA
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Google I/O

#1 Post by PhaseDMA » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:26 am

Just a friendly reminder that Google I/Os keynote is at 12:30pm EST (9:30 PST).

I'm hoping Google has something major to announce in regards to their driverless cars (among many other things).

https://developers.google.com/events/io/
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Quirk
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Re: Google I/O

#2 Post by Quirk » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:45 am

I think it has been all but confirmed that they will be announcing their Nexus Tablet.

cokalsM
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Re: Google I/O

#3 Post by cokalsM » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:49 pm

[quote=PhaseDMA]
I'm hoping Google has something major to announce in regards to their driverless cars (among many other things).[/quote]

Too lazy to look. Did they?
[quote=plasma2002 post_id=27745]My Beerizza store is no bar. You walk in, hand over your $25, get handed a case and a pie. Then you leave. You want soda? What part of Beer&Pizza only dont you get? You want cheese sticks? Who the f... Get the fuck out of here.[/quote]

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Re: Google I/O

#4 Post by PhaseDMA » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:35 pm

Naw.

It was all about Jelly Bean (basically they overhauled the notifications and added voice to the phone level instead of the server level), Nexus 7 (which more or less makes of joke of the Kindle Fire), Nexus Q (which I still don't understand it's place) and Google Glass (http://youtu.be/D7TB8b2t3QE).
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cokalsM
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Re: Google I/O

#5 Post by cokalsM » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:45 am

I see.

Speaking of Jellybean, Android phones a year old not even slated to get ICS is ridiculous. I realize it's not entirely Google's fault that Android updates have become a complete clusterfuck, but the ball is in their court now by owning Motorola. I realize they may intend to just leave Motorola as is but they need to step in and stop this - and frankly shame on them if they do.

Before owning Motorola, I still thought Google could bully the carriers/phone manufacturers to release updates right away, but now they really have no excuse. For example, if they told Verizon they were pushing the most updated version of Android available that each particular Motorola phone's hardware could run, and that Verizon would not, under any circumstances, alter it in any way, or _______ would happen (insert consequence), I'm not sure Verizon would call Google's bluff. Verizon has more to lose than Google/Motorola does.

The fact that my Razr Maxx, most sold phone on Verizon (I think?) still is without a full official ICS release is laughable. I would be absolutely shocked if the Razr gets Jellybean, which needs to change.
[quote=plasma2002 post_id=27745]My Beerizza store is no bar. You walk in, hand over your $25, get handed a case and a pie. Then you leave. You want soda? What part of Beer&Pizza only dont you get? You want cheese sticks? Who the f... Get the fuck out of here.[/quote]

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PhaseDMA
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Re: Google I/O

#6 Post by PhaseDMA » Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:37 pm

Why is it ridiculous? Because you don't like it?

Here is the thing. Google does think that this is a issue, and last year they tried to address it with their 18 month promise, but it isn't that simple. You can't just go "Oh here is a new version of Android, so lets get it on the device tomorrow". You have to do testing, and deployment strategy and all of this other Q and A before you can roll it out.

Even if you assume that they could just slap Jelly Bean onto a ICS (I assure you they can't) you still have to factor in deployment. You can't just roll out. What do you think would happen to the Verizon network if all of a sudden Motorola released a over the air update to every single user? It would come crashing down.

But it's not just about logistics. Every single major OEM changes Android when they release it. Some not very much at all, but none of them can just press a update button. Just ask Cyanogenmod. How long does it take them to get their software working on the very first phone they decide to support? Weeks? And who gets to complain if something doesn't work? No one. Who gets to complain if something doesn't work on a Motorola phone? Everyone.

Look. I've seen manufactures release updates to Android phones that bricked the phones during upgrade (another reason for staggered releases). So even if you have a company like Asus who seems to take updates to their devices *very* serious, it takes time to make sure things don't go wrong, and even when you try to make sure things don't go wrong in a quick fashion they still do.

Here is the other thing. Google can update their Nexus phones much faster than anyone else. Yet it still can take weeks for a Nexus device to get the newest announced version of Android. So if it takes Google weeks (and they have the most to lose by not upgrading phones), how can you possibly expect the OEMs to do it in any less time then a month much less longer?

The bottom line is there is want and desire. Than there is reality. Typically those things don't line up the way we would want.

If you want the most current version of Android you have a couple choices - Buy the Nexus line of phones (and really there is little reason to not do so at this point), buy one of the other popular phones with good 3rd party rom support, or stop getting upset it takes so long to get a update. You can figure out pretty easily how fast a OEM is going to update their phones based on past performance. But you have to realize that there are 400 million Android devices activated. That's 12 every single second. How many different devices is that? I don't know, but it's more than one company can possibly be expected to support. On the flip side Apple has 3 phones they support, but they are not pulling anything magical off when updating their phones either.
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cokalsM
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Re: Google I/O

#7 Post by cokalsM » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:02 pm

First, the OEM changes that occur are exactly what I'm talking about. Google NEEDS to tell Motorola to just update the phone without adding anything extra. If they don't, it is clear that they really don't give a shit. Then take it a next step further and tell VZW to go kick rocks with their extra bullshit they add. Apple did it. Don't tell me Google can't.

Second, an instance of a phone bricking on update is not the cause for phones receiving updates a year later - and most of the time never. Regardless of when they decide to release the update, the phone should still go through proper soak tests. I'm in no way saying Google should release Jellybean two days ago and every phone should already have it by next week. If it took 2-3 months, fine. But never receiving the update, which is the majority of phones...unacceptable. Currently 94% of phones still don't have ICS. There is absolutely no way to defend that number and say that is alright, since it 'takes a while to update'. I realize some of that 94% will receive ICS soon, but then 1) they are already running an old OS and 2) it took seven months...(see below).

Third, like I said, it is ridiculous because ICS was released October 19, 2011 and the Razr was launched on November 11, 2011. Seven months later and the phone is still running Gingerbread. 210 days later...Two-hundred and ten days. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that is acceptable.

Jellybean was released June 27, 2012. So now, the flagship phone at Verizon is 2 OS's behind. Look, I understand that you putting an OS on a phone is not a piece of cake, but it's not like we are trying to put Win7 on a Gameboy Color... getting a phone that already runs Android 4.0 to run Android 4.1 cannot take as long as it does...and if it does, then maybe Google's coding team is the cause for all of this.

Your three options you gave are the problem. If Google's only solution is to tell people to root, then shame on them again. Then, the Nexus devices are frankly kind of sub-par. The Galaxy Nexus' camera sucks compared to a phone I bought two years ago, the battery is terrible, and it drops data connection very often. So you have to pick, quicker updates or best hardware? There is no way this is the right way to do this.

Bringing Cyanogenmod into this really just furthers my point. I don't have numbers to back this up, but I'm betting phone manufacturers have more software engineers than CM does...atleast on each particular phone. If some random guy on XDA can port ICS to my Incredible in a few weeks (even with a few minor flaws), then HTC could have given a few men on the job and had it running in 30 days tops.
[quote=plasma2002 post_id=27745]My Beerizza store is no bar. You walk in, hand over your $25, get handed a case and a pie. Then you leave. You want soda? What part of Beer&Pizza only dont you get? You want cheese sticks? Who the f... Get the fuck out of here.[/quote]

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Re: Google I/O

#8 Post by PhaseDMA » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:08 pm

Okay cokalsM.... /me cracks knuckles

[quote=cokalsM]First, the OEM changes that occur are exactly what I'm talking about. Google NEEDS to tell Motorola to just update the phone without adding anything extra. If they don't, it is clear that they really don't give a shit. Then take it a next step further and tell VZW to go kick rocks with their extra bullshit they add. Apple did it. Don't tell me Google can't.[/quote]

Android is open source. You can't just tell your OEMs what they can and can't do. In fact there is very little if anything they can tell OEMs to do. However Google does care, and that's why there are "Google Experience" devices. However by changing the software the companies make more money (at least in theory). And no. Google can't just tell Verizon to shove off if they don't do things their way. They are starting to get to that point, and maybe they are already there, but they sure as hell were not there a year ago. Plus I don't know about you, but I think it's very bad for consumers when one large company is so powerful they can demand things from another large company.

[quote=cokalsM]Second, an instance of a phone bricking on update is not the cause for phones receiving updates a year later - and most of the time never. Regardless of when they decide to release the update, the phone should still go through proper soak tests. I'm in no way saying Google should release Jellybean two days ago and every phone should already have it by next week. If it took 2-3 months, fine. But never receiving the update, which is the majority of phones...unacceptable. Currently 94% of phones still don't have ICS. There is absolutely no way to defend that number and say that is alright, since it 'takes a while to update'. I realize some of that 94% will receive ICS soon, but then 1) they are already running an old OS and 2) it took seven months...(see below).[/quote]

This entire notion that phones should get updates is extremely new. It's a nature that has been fostered by Apple and Google. When I had my Windows 6.1 phone no one expected to get any updates for it, and you sure as hell didn't get updates for "feature phones". To that extent phone OEMs don't actually owe you anything. In the grand scheme of things very little changed between the version of Android that came on my OG Droid and Gingerbread. In addition the phones that are popular will and do get 1 update and sometimes up to 3 updates. However if the phone isn't popular (aka not making money) there is zero reason to spend money on support for that phone.

[quote=cokalsM]Third, like I said, it is ridiculous because ICS was released October 19, 2011 and the Razr was launched on November 11, 2011. Seven months later and the phone is still running Gingerbread. 210 days later...Two-hundred and ten days. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that is acceptable.[/quote]

Of course I can. I just did. Really you should be happy knowing that the Razr almost certainly will get updated before it hits EOL. Really the longer you wait the longer the phone stays up to date. There is also the tiny issue that Motorola just got bought by this company, and is in massive transition, lost their CEO (and who knows who else) and there are still rumors that the entire hardware side will be sold off. I think they are a bit preoccupied.

[quote=cokalsM]Jellybean was released June 27, 2012. So now, the flagship phone at Verizon is 2 OS's behind. Look, I understand that you putting an OS on a phone is not a piece of cake, but it's not like we are trying to put Win7 on a Gameboy Color... getting a phone that already runs Android 4.0 to run Android 4.1 cannot take as long as it does...and if it does, then maybe Google's coding team is the cause for all of this.[/quote]

First of all Jelly Bean really has not been released yet. It's in "developer preview" or something funky like that. Yes some Galaxy Nexus phone, and all Nexus 7s s now have it... But they all these people attended Google I/O, and as such are considered developers by Google. I have little doubt no non Google I/O device will have Jelly Bean before "mid July", at which point Jelly Bean may still not be pushed to the rest of the Galaxy Nexus population. So lets keep this in perspective.

[quote=cokalsM]Your three options you gave are the problem. If Google's only solution is to tell people to root, then shame on them again. Then, the Nexus devices are frankly kind of sub-par. The Galaxy Nexus' camera sucks compared to a phone I bought two years ago, the battery is terrible, and it drops data connection very often. So you have to pick, quicker updates or best hardware? There is no way this is the right way to do this.[/quote]

I'm a bleeding edge type of guy. However I'm very content with my EVO that is more than 2 years old. I'm curious to know what you are doing that you need all that power. But I'm not convinced that any phone has decent battery life, and I suspect your data connection issues are carrier specific. However if it isn't a carrier issue than why do you want the software that would be causing the issue?

[quote=cokalsM]Bringing Cyanogenmod into this really just furthers my point. I don't have numbers to back this up, but I'm betting phone manufacturers have more software engineers than CM does...atleast on each particular phone. If some random guy on XDA can port ICS to my Incredible in a few weeks (even with a few minor flaws), then HTC could have given a few men on the job and had it running in 30 days tops.[/quote]

Probably not seeing as the main guy at Cyangenmod was hired by Samsung. However this brings us back around to profitability. You will notice that phones that clearly are making a profit tend to get updates long before the less popular phones. But again this is all things you need to consider before buying a phone.

You bought a phone from a company that has a very bad update history and is in the middle of a buyout transition. What can you really expect to happen other than the phone not getting a quick update? Buy HTC, Samsung, or Asus. Those three companies have great update histories which shows they probably understand the software better, and it's probably one of the reason why all of them have extremely successful devices, and have at least one Nexus device.
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cokalsM
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Re: Google I/O

#9 Post by cokalsM » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:27 pm

You bring up good points. I'll keep this short, as I don't want this to go on forever.

I worked for a company that was bought out before. The higher-ups were always busy with the transition and the rest was doing their regular job + whatever was needed to move to the new company. The claims department continued to take claims, HR still HR'd, enrollment department still tried to find new members, etc. Everything was mostly normal in the company, except for the upper-level staff. I doubt the engineers behind bringing ICS to phones - especially one that has been a huge hit and money maker for Motorola and VZW - would just stop what they are doing because they were bought by Google.

Yes, I bought a phone from a manufacturer that has a terrible history with updates. I knew that from the start. I didn't care because I rooted it the second I got home. Buying the phone had nothing to do with needing 'all that power'. I simply chose one with top hardware vs. one that has slightly above average hardware + connectivity issues switching from 3G to 4G. Software wise, with rooting, is all the same to me. But this wasn't about me, it was about the overall situation that is going on. (situation = http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-brief/6 ... eks-past-7). Also, the battery life is more than decent on the Maxx.

In my opinion, if this was run correctly, your EVO would have received OTA ICS already.
[quote=plasma2002 post_id=27745]My Beerizza store is no bar. You walk in, hand over your $25, get handed a case and a pie. Then you leave. You want soda? What part of Beer&Pizza only dont you get? You want cheese sticks? Who the f... Get the fuck out of here.[/quote]

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Re: Google I/O

#10 Post by PhaseDMA » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:11 pm

The EVO was EOL before ICS was released, so no.
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My MPG sucks cause' I remote start all the time - And than drive 2 miles to work
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