Mars One - Colonizing Mars

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PhaseDMA
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by PhaseDMA »

Don't they know the answer to that? I mean they grow things on the ISS right?
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Wotcher
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Wotcher »

[quote=PhaseDMA]As far as why I think we will get to mars? Well the fact we have already been to Mars doesn't hurt... However what NASA did while worth wild and awesome was financially stupid (Just to be clear I would have support this stupidity). Today though private companies can get into space and make a profit. A private company probably could have beat NASA to the moon - However no private company could afford to throw so much money at it... If they did though they would have done it probably for half the cost.

And no - WE DO NOT NEED A MARS PLANTERY COALITION OF RULES AND REGULATIONS. In fact that's the last thing we need. Have you paid any attention to the UN and how much they screw up? How about the European Union? It sounds good on paper, but I've never seen it work on much smaller scales much less the scale of a entire planet.[/quote]

i'm assuming you retract your statement that implies the only problem scientists agree on is overpopulation.

we've never been to Mars. we've put a machine on Mars, which is an order of magnitude less tough than putting 1 man on Mars, which is less tough than putting 10 men on Mars, much less 100. anywho yeah i'm sure private companies will accelerate the process but I still don't think it's very smart to be so confident about such a thing. it's an arbitrary date in time and nobody here is a NASA engineer or a space scientist.

as for your second paragraph, you're conversing with someone who believes that the ideal form of successful government is globalized. also, using the UN as an example for why globalized government would never work holds about as much water as using James Buchanan as an example for why presidency would never work! an example of poor execution never discredits the core of any idea.

but, alas; thermite was entirely right: in my comment i was only considering issues of human rights. with a side-thought of "woah maybe if we go to mars and have to create a system of human interplanetary rules, then everyone will wake up the next day and wonder why we've been treating each other so poorly this whole time instead of working together to take over the galaxy"
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PhaseDMA
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by PhaseDMA »

Oh please. The UN is just one example. The League of Nations is yet another example. And again... The European Union (Which mind you: England thought was a dumb ass idea from the start). So no. It's nothing like saying because some random President was a bad one that the entire idea was bad... Much less some random one well into the establishment with plenty of good ones before and after him. The organizations listed above were bad ideas before they were started, in the middle of their existence, and either to their end or show no signs of improving.

The concept you need a world wide organization to create laws for human rights is about as ludicrous as the idea of this type of organization for any reason in general. A lot of the failures of these groups has to do with the human rights issues. Human rights are important, but you can't force this type of thing. It has to be organic just like democracy. And since China is one of the least developed of the developed space programs that's not nearly as big of an issue as these programs get booted up. Remember - Only the US and Russia can get people into space. Japan is probably next. China is good at stealing technology, but it's a lot harder to steal the gifted people you need for these programs, so they are off in the distance.

There are still a lot of human right issues on this planet, but most of them are a result of undeveloped countries and over population. Neither of which would be a problem on Mars. I think even China desires to be better in regards to human rights, and they don't have any good excuses, they do have real reasons.

Even if you say China will reach Mars at the same time as any other country - They are a developed nation. They will only be sending people they want to keep happy. Human rights won't be a issue by the time any country with human right issues reaches it. (African countries? Iran? I mean really...) China is misbehaved at best, but they cut drastically back in their own country during the Olympics. They are even better behaved outside of their borders. Imagine how well behaved they would be on another planet.

You are probably right. Scientist can't even agree on overpopulation.
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Wotcher
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Wotcher »

none of that precludes a world organization being successful... additionally, holy crap, if history has taught us anything it's that, as far as human rights go, we DO have to "force this type of thing." slavery got abolished in the states, saddam got hunted down, and hitler had the whole world against him. i have a feeling you don't think human rights are even important! (i'm joking--or, am i?)

anywho, as for what you said about the other countries, i'm not sure if you're responding to someone else or we're having different conversations.

that last part--is that a jab at scientists? or a joke? or are you actually suggesting overpopulation isn't a problem? you keep restating this idea sans any logical argument.
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Thermite Man
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Thermite Man »

I think religion should be banned on any potential colonization of any planet. It has fucked us too much already.

Lets say that we do end up colonizing Mars or any moon of whatever planet. After a few generations I feel like there would be a huge disincent(sp) between a person raised on Earth or on another planet. I could also see something along the lines of Earth Vs non-earth wars over whatever we decided to kill each other over that time.
Never forget 10/23, OiNK OiNK
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Wotcher
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Wotcher »

[quote="Thermite Man"]I think religion should be banned on any potential colonization of any planet. It has fucked us too much already.[/quote]


this is the kind of thing dictators say. i agree that much blood has been shed in the name of religion; however, much blood has also been shed in the name of government, slavery, territory, etc. banning religion would be a violation of basic human rights, and I don't think I am in the minority to say so. for the record, i am sorta agnostic but mostly freethinker (freethinker is a fancysounding word for "changes the nature of his spirituality every time he wakes up in the morning")

i do believe in the values the US was founded on, and I will fight to my death for the right of even the Westboro Baptists to say what they wish to say. abolishing religion is a v. idealist mindset (mind you, i am an idealist myself) at best, and downright dictatoresque at worst.

additionally, i implore you to investigate buddhism.
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bigcfk
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by bigcfk »

[quote=Wotcher]additionally, i implore you to investigate buddhism.[/quote]
:like: bigcfk likes this, as a Buddhist.
Thermite Man
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Thermite Man »

Not to get into the religion debate. But the first settlers of any planet/moon will more than likely be scientists. And quite honestly I believe by the time we can colonize anything that religion will be all but the butt of a joke. Scientists seem to be made of a majority of atheists. I feel like religion wont be banned but just accepted as ancient fairy tales much like the Greek/Roman gods are now.

I do not foresee the colonization of Mars in my life time. I do believe it will happen, not soon. Look at what people were saying back when computers were being invented. Something to the extent of "no one will ever need a hard drive larger than 1MB". We look back on that now and laugh. I hope I am wrong about Mars, but I would rather hope for the best plan for the worst. We will have a colony on the moon before Mars and I think I will be seeing the beginning of that as I am dying.
Never forget 10/23, OiNK OiNK
cokalsM wrote: If I don’t build the sand castles, the bitches won’t come. It’s not one or the other.
askmeques wrote:thermite is just a walking sellout.
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Wotcher
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Wotcher »

You can't say you don't want to get into religion debate and then just... put forth your position on the future of religion.

you went from "this is how i feel religion /should/ be treated in the future" to "this is how i /predict/ the people doing the colonizing will treat religion." does this mean you believe both, or that you are clarifying/changing your original thought?

also, most scientists are actually just scientists, not Atheists. i put Atheists in caps because I personally distinguish heavily between:
-a scientist who is An Atheist
-a scientist who doesn't concern himself with questions of god

a la Neil deGrasse Tyson. most non-scientist atheists (and some scientist atheists) are all up in your face about their lack of religion.

scientists and scientifically-minded people will certainly be the first ones to colonize Mars, and by the time that happens i'm sure our society will be less religious as a whole. however, that doesn't mean that religion will end up as the butt of a joke. I think the varieties of religion, anthropologically speaking, still have things to teach us. science will eventually get to the point where we can fully understand the human predisposition for spirituality, perhaps with sciences we haven't yet figured out entirely, like quantum mechanics or super symmetry.

what WILL be the butt of a joke, to agree with you here, are things like harmful orthodox religions that encourage unequal treatment or brainwash kids. that shit needs to go ASAP.

and finally, if our spirituality eventually gets explained by science, the atheists will all go, "see! it was never spirituality in the first place! it was science all along!" (this is a problem with atheists: they often falsely claim to be less competitive/intrusive than the religious folk)

when, really, if spirituality can really be explained by science (i believe it can be), then spirituality and science were the /same thing/ all along. it doesn't invalidate spirituality; it just provides the math for what people have been experiencing and enjoying since the beginning. two sides to the coin.
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Jenna
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Re: Mars One - Colonizing Mars

Post by Jenna »

FWIW, my experience with scientists is that very few are avowed atheists. I know lots of people that are indifferent or agnostic, and several that are religious in one way or another. Just my experience being part of a large circle of assorted engineers, chemists, physicists, and medical people.
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